<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Corey Robin</title>
	<atom:link href="http://coreyrobin.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://coreyrobin.com</link>
	<description>Author of The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 15:57:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Fancy Dress at Fancy Law Firms? You&#8217;re Fired! by Fashion Union</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2012/04/04/fancy-dress-at-fancy-law-firms-youre-fired/#comment-19809</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fashion Union]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 15:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=2079#comment-19809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So that is freedom for the rich but not the worker, why does that not suprise me ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So that is freedom for the rich but not the worker, why does that not suprise me ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by jonst</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 14:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you can&#039;t see the difference btwn a select groups of workers, however numerous, in a given community, v. a nationwide class (all people above the age of 18) of people exposed to being drafted into the US military, there is little I can say further to you on the subject.  You are a &#039;vertical&#039;...someone has to control the message. The draft, at that time, and note they got rid of it shortly after, was a &#039;horizontal&#039; happening. Every kid on the block saw what was happening...they needed no &#039;grown ups&#039; or &#039;intellectuals, (most of whom were NOT in the service) to refine a message.  Some may have supported the war, some may not have, some may have been indifferent, but on a personal basis, everyone had a chance to see what it was doing to the men and boys, who came back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can&#8217;t see the difference btwn a select groups of workers, however numerous, in a given community, v. a nationwide class (all people above the age of 18) of people exposed to being drafted into the US military, there is little I can say further to you on the subject.  You are a &#8216;vertical&#8217;&#8230;someone has to control the message. The draft, at that time, and note they got rid of it shortly after, was a &#8216;horizontal&#8217; happening. Every kid on the block saw what was happening&#8230;they needed no &#8216;grown ups&#8217; or &#8216;intellectuals, (most of whom were NOT in the service) to refine a message.  Some may have supported the war, some may not have, some may have been indifferent, but on a personal basis, everyone had a chance to see what it was doing to the men and boys, who came back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by Dene Karaus</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19762</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dene Karaus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 02:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whose opposition really counted?  That&#039;s the important issue.  Muhammed Ali&#039;s.  He went to prison for refusing induction.  His counted.  He set an example.

Those who refused the draft.  Their&#039;s counted.  Those who marched with signs and stood up, their&#039;s counted.  Those who left for overseas or Canada, their&#039;s counted. 

Why?  Because it was one less soldier available, and one additional powerful voice working to change peoples minds day by day.  

Ministers, priests and rabbis, who stood bravely in front of congregations who didn&#039;t wish to entertain anti-war rhetoric in their public religious lives, their&#039;s counted.  Each individual who took an ethics class in college (millions did) and realized the war was completely immoral, their opposition counted.  

The people who turned against the war because we were losing, their&#039;s DID NOT COUNT.  That sort of opposition to war is bereft of meaning, and comes too late to affect the course of the war.  It was a gutless response to an earlier failure to stand up for what would have been right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whose opposition really counted?  That&#8217;s the important issue.  Muhammed Ali&#8217;s.  He went to prison for refusing induction.  His counted.  He set an example.</p>
<p>Those who refused the draft.  Their&#8217;s counted.  Those who marched with signs and stood up, their&#8217;s counted.  Those who left for overseas or Canada, their&#8217;s counted. </p>
<p>Why?  Because it was one less soldier available, and one additional powerful voice working to change peoples minds day by day.  </p>
<p>Ministers, priests and rabbis, who stood bravely in front of congregations who didn&#8217;t wish to entertain anti-war rhetoric in their public religious lives, their&#8217;s counted.  Each individual who took an ethics class in college (millions did) and realized the war was completely immoral, their opposition counted.  </p>
<p>The people who turned against the war because we were losing, their&#8217;s DID NOT COUNT.  That sort of opposition to war is bereft of meaning, and comes too late to affect the course of the war.  It was a gutless response to an earlier failure to stand up for what would have been right.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by Benjamin David Steele</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19757</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Benjamin David Steele]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 00:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve heard that argument before. It is based on an assumption that most people make. That assumption is that lower income voters switched from Democrats to Republicans. 

The problem with the assumptions made in the mainstream is that they often are wrong. People repeat something enough that it starts seeming like a unquestionable given, an obvious commonsense truth. Besides it being repeated, why do people jump to the conclusion that the working class turned against the Democrats?

As ralphiesmom pointed out above (and do check out the data at the link):


&quot;Decades ago, I read something that said the largest segment against the war were people with a grade school education. Ah, here it is in this book preview:&quot;

http://books.google.com/books?id=KEEWWcuKQ34C&amp;pg=PA131&amp;lpg=PA131&amp;dq=but+the+figure+rose+to+75%25+among+the+grade-school-educated.+In+general&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=6tnsEThuUM&amp;sig=QpQIN9G16_6VJx12SgpwcJDtxhc&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=AaWVUZ_HAcqEiwL9sYCIDA&amp;ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&amp;q=but%20the%20figure%20rose%20to%2075%25%20among%20the%20grade-school-educated.%20In%20general&amp;f=false

Larry M. Bartels, in Unequal Democracy, explored this issue. He discovered that the bottom third income bracket has remained solidly Democratic since the Progressive Era. He also observed that Democrats haven&#039;t even lost the white vote across the country. He did note, however, that Democrats lost the white vote in the South.

There is interesting data that I don&#039;t think Bartels discussed. Democrats haven&#039;t lost the white vote across the board even in the South. The Southern white youth vote has gone to Democrats. Even more interesting and also contrary to mainstream assumptions, Democrats never lost the South. The majority of eligible voters in the South support the Democrats. However, because of disenfranchisement (long voting lines in poor areas, voter purges, etc), the Democratic majority in the South rarely wins elections.

Democrats don&#039;t lose elections because they&#039;ve lost the American people. Most Americans, including the white working class, are fairly liberal and increasingly so on many major political issues:

http://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/us-demographics-increasing-progressivism/

Democrats and liberals do need to rethink their assumptions, but maybe not the assumptions they think they need to rethink.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard that argument before. It is based on an assumption that most people make. That assumption is that lower income voters switched from Democrats to Republicans. </p>
<p>The problem with the assumptions made in the mainstream is that they often are wrong. People repeat something enough that it starts seeming like a unquestionable given, an obvious commonsense truth. Besides it being repeated, why do people jump to the conclusion that the working class turned against the Democrats?</p>
<p>As ralphiesmom pointed out above (and do check out the data at the link):</p>
<p>&#8220;Decades ago, I read something that said the largest segment against the war were people with a grade school education. Ah, here it is in this book preview:&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=KEEWWcuKQ34C&#038;pg=PA131&#038;lpg=PA131&#038;dq=but+the+figure+rose+to+75%25+among+the+grade-school-educated.+In+general&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=6tnsEThuUM&#038;sig=QpQIN9G16_6VJx12SgpwcJDtxhc&#038;hl=en&#038;sa=X&#038;ei=AaWVUZ_HAcqEiwL9sYCIDA&#038;ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&#038;q=but%20the%20figure%20rose%20to%2075%25%20among%20the%20grade-school-educated.%20In%20general&#038;f=false" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=KEEWWcuKQ34C&#038;pg=PA131&#038;lpg=PA131&#038;dq=but+the+figure+rose+to+75%25+among+the+grade-school-educated.+In+general&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=6tnsEThuUM&#038;sig=QpQIN9G16_6VJx12SgpwcJDtxhc&#038;hl=en&#038;sa=X&#038;ei=AaWVUZ_HAcqEiwL9sYCIDA&#038;ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&#038;q=but%20the%20figure%20rose%20to%2075%25%20among%20the%20grade-school-educated.%20In%20general&#038;f=false</a></p>
<p>Larry M. Bartels, in Unequal Democracy, explored this issue. He discovered that the bottom third income bracket has remained solidly Democratic since the Progressive Era. He also observed that Democrats haven&#8217;t even lost the white vote across the country. He did note, however, that Democrats lost the white vote in the South.</p>
<p>There is interesting data that I don&#8217;t think Bartels discussed. Democrats haven&#8217;t lost the white vote across the board even in the South. The Southern white youth vote has gone to Democrats. Even more interesting and also contrary to mainstream assumptions, Democrats never lost the South. The majority of eligible voters in the South support the Democrats. However, because of disenfranchisement (long voting lines in poor areas, voter purges, etc), the Democratic majority in the South rarely wins elections.</p>
<p>Democrats don&#8217;t lose elections because they&#8217;ve lost the American people. Most Americans, including the white working class, are fairly liberal and increasingly so on many major political issues:</p>
<p><a href="http://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/us-demographics-increasing-progressivism/" rel="nofollow">http://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/us-demographics-increasing-progressivism/</a></p>
<p>Democrats and liberals do need to rethink their assumptions, but maybe not the assumptions they think they need to rethink.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Critics respond to &#8220;Nietzsche&#8217;s Marginal Children&#8221; by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/13/critics-respond-to-nietzsches-marginal-children/#comment-19747</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 21:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4399#comment-19747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, considering the very definition of &#039;rightwing&#039; involves supporting inequality (although not necessarily hierarchy), and considering that conservatives and right-libertarians are rightwing, it pretty much goes without saying. Yes, there are valid reasons that many support the free market and oppose top-down state socialism and welfare, but it is not relevant to Corey&#039;s thesis here. It was the great Italian philosopher Norberto Bobbio that remarked that if we were to pick a patron saint of the left it would be Rosseau and for the right it would be Nietzsche. This is because the fundamental beliefs of both sides are best distilled in their respective writings. Therefore, I think Corey is at least on to something even if it is a bit of a stretch.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, considering the very definition of &#8216;rightwing&#8217; involves supporting inequality (although not necessarily hierarchy), and considering that conservatives and right-libertarians are rightwing, it pretty much goes without saying. Yes, there are valid reasons that many support the free market and oppose top-down state socialism and welfare, but it is not relevant to Corey&#8217;s thesis here. It was the great Italian philosopher Norberto Bobbio that remarked that if we were to pick a patron saint of the left it would be Rosseau and for the right it would be Nietzsche. This is because the fundamental beliefs of both sides are best distilled in their respective writings. Therefore, I think Corey is at least on to something even if it is a bit of a stretch.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by Malcolm Schosha</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19745</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm Schosha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 20:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;…’every kid on the block’, or a critical mass of them/us could convey what was going on in Vietnam.&quot;

Likewise, everyone who worked as a coal miner in Harlan County knew they had terrible working conditions and were being economically exploited too. But it still took union organizers to present unions as the solution in terms they could relate to, while also pressuring the owners to sign a contract. If some New Left types had shown up in Harlan County and burned the flag, it would have made the mine owners happy. 

When Alinsky started organizing communities in Chicago, he worked with the Church. He was trying to do something effective to make their lives better. The community was mostly religious Catholics, so that is what he worker with. If he started criticizing the Church, it would have ended his organizing for that community. The New Left never figured that out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;…’every kid on the block’, or a critical mass of them/us could convey what was going on in Vietnam.&#8221;</p>
<p>Likewise, everyone who worked as a coal miner in Harlan County knew they had terrible working conditions and were being economically exploited too. But it still took union organizers to present unions as the solution in terms they could relate to, while also pressuring the owners to sign a contract. If some New Left types had shown up in Harlan County and burned the flag, it would have made the mine owners happy. </p>
<p>When Alinsky started organizing communities in Chicago, he worked with the Church. He was trying to do something effective to make their lives better. The community was mostly religious Catholics, so that is what he worker with. If he started criticizing the Church, it would have ended his organizing for that community. The New Left never figured that out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by jonst</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 15:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[. &quot;The problem Alinsky was pointing out, is the New Left’s failure to present their opposition to the Vietnam War in terms that many blue-collar workers could relate to.  This was patently unneeded.  You had a draft...&#039;every kid on the block&#039;, or a critical mass of them/us could convey what was going on in Vietnam.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>. &#8220;The problem Alinsky was pointing out, is the New Left’s failure to present their opposition to the Vietnam War in terms that many blue-collar workers could relate to.  This was patently unneeded.  You had a draft&#8230;&#8217;every kid on the block&#8217;, or a critical mass of them/us could convey what was going on in Vietnam.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by Malcolm Schosha</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19736</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm Schosha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 14:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Myths have a tendency to take on a life of their own, especially after being promoted by government propaganda and/or rhetoric from well-funded think tanks.&quot;

You seem to be missing the point. The problem Alinsky was pointing out, is the New Left&#039;s failure to present their opposition to the Vietnam War in terms that many blue-collar workers could relate to. There is actually some reason to think they were not even interested it trying. The result of that was that a lot of union workers who had voted Democrat all their lives, voted for Nixon in 1968. It could have been different. That is not &quot;government propaganda,&quot;  New Left arrogance and political stupidity was (and is) the real thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Myths have a tendency to take on a life of their own, especially after being promoted by government propaganda and/or rhetoric from well-funded think tanks.&#8221;</p>
<p>You seem to be missing the point. The problem Alinsky was pointing out, is the New Left&#8217;s failure to present their opposition to the Vietnam War in terms that many blue-collar workers could relate to. There is actually some reason to think they were not even interested it trying. The result of that was that a lot of union workers who had voted Democrat all their lives, voted for Nixon in 1968. It could have been different. That is not &#8220;government propaganda,&#8221;  New Left arrogance and political stupidity was (and is) the real thing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Ronald Reagan: Ríos Montt is &#8220;totally dedicated to democracy&#8221; by BoboBotanteBinayBashing &#124; Kapirasong Kritika</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/10/ronald-reagan-rios-montt-is-totally-dedicated-to-democracy/#comment-19735</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BoboBotanteBinayBashing &#124; Kapirasong Kritika]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 14:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4393#comment-19735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] at ilang tagapagtaguyod nito. Sinuportahan ni Ronald Reagan si Ferdinand Marcos, gayundin si Rios Mott, diktador ng Guatemala na responsable sa maraming karimarimarim na [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] at ilang tagapagtaguyod nito. Sinuportahan ni Ronald Reagan si Ferdinand Marcos, gayundin si Rios Mott, diktador ng Guatemala na responsable sa maraming karimarimarim na [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Everything you know about the movement against the Vietnam War is wrong by Mitchell Freedman</title>
		<link>http://coreyrobin.com/2013/05/16/everything-you-know-about-the-movement-against-the-vietnam-war-is-wrong/#comment-19731</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mitchell Freedman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 12:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coreyrobin.com/?p=4409#comment-19731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The UE was the only major union to not purge its Reds.  It is unique among most of the other unions in the US post-WWII and into the 1970s.  I personally found Ms. Lewis&#039; thesis unproven, though I&#039;ll look for her book.  It is a half truth to say that &quot;all&quot; &quot;hardhats&quot; were hawks, but it is still a general truth.  I grew up in Woodbridge, NJ, where there were plenty of hardhats who went from Kennedy-Johnson liberals basking in the New Deal to Reagan Republicans, forget even Reagan Democrats.  They hated &quot;the kids&quot; who were against &quot;&#039;merica&quot; and the war, even as they doubted the war after a long while.  

We should not fall into the rhetorical trap that just because something is not fully true, it must be a myth and ultimately false.  The world is simply too complicated to jump to that conclusion.  It is the mistake of bad (as opposed to good) engineers who think something is off if it is not on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UE was the only major union to not purge its Reds.  It is unique among most of the other unions in the US post-WWII and into the 1970s.  I personally found Ms. Lewis&#8217; thesis unproven, though I&#8217;ll look for her book.  It is a half truth to say that &#8220;all&#8221; &#8220;hardhats&#8221; were hawks, but it is still a general truth.  I grew up in Woodbridge, NJ, where there were plenty of hardhats who went from Kennedy-Johnson liberals basking in the New Deal to Reagan Republicans, forget even Reagan Democrats.  They hated &#8220;the kids&#8221; who were against &#8220;&#8216;merica&#8221; and the war, even as they doubted the war after a long while.  </p>
<p>We should not fall into the rhetorical trap that just because something is not fully true, it must be a myth and ultimately false.  The world is simply too complicated to jump to that conclusion.  It is the mistake of bad (as opposed to good) engineers who think something is off if it is not on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>